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R2W Voices Le Afi Ua Mu:
The Fire Burned... and the Fire Is Still Burning! Turn up the heat!
August 2007
Hawaii
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R2W Program Assistant Lauren Quock sat down with one of the facilitators of the new Le Afi Ua Mu program, Crystal Talitonu, to talk about her August trip to Hawaii to recognize some of the young R2W leaders in Hawaii and kick-off the program.
Lauren: So we went to Hawaii together with CLI in 2005. How were you feeling about going to Hawaii this time? What did you expect?
Crystal: Honestly, I wasn’t excited at all to go back to Hawaii. The last time we were there, we stayed in Waikiki, but spent most a lot of the time on the Waianae coast with groups like the Ma’o youth organic farm. Seeing the major contrast and inequalities between Waikiki and Waianae affected my mind and my politics. It ignited a lot of personal anger and frustration towards the colonizers of the past and the present. So, I guess you could say I was expecting to revisit those frustrations. The only thing I was looking forward to was getting to reconnect with the youth leaders from the R2W summers and meeting activists involved in political movements.
Lauren: What did you do while you were in Hawaii this time?
Crystal: We met with leaders like Kaleo Patterson, who is a Native Hawaiian ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and who is involved in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. He took us on a mini-tour of the Waianae coast and shared some insight about the homeless situation there, brought us to sacred sites, and shared with us about some of the issues around Hawaiian sovereignty in the church and community.
Luse [R2W 2004 and CLI 2004-2007] and I got share about our justice work and being Pacific Islander and how difficult it is. We also talked about our interest in doing more social justice work within the Pacific Islander community. Kaleo Patterson and the Peace and Justice Reconciliation Center that he’s the head of are really interested in creating programming for young people, so it felt like we had something to give each other.
We asked him if he knew of any Samoan leaders who are in the movement or who are doing stuff in the community and he couldn’t name one. Because Luse and I are Samoan and Kaleo Patterson is Native Hawaiian, I expected that we were going to have a natural affinity because of the proximity of our islands and that the Hawaiian and Samoan collaboration was going to automatically happen. But in talking with Kaleo and Michael [James, Director of R2W Youth Programs], I realized that Samoan history is really different from Native Hawaiian history. In a way, Native Hawaiians have more connection with the Native American struggle. So even though we come from the same area in the South Pacific and we’re Pacific Islanders, we don’t have the same struggles or needs.
But it still felt good to be with a Pacific Islander brother who was really passionate about social justice and faith based work and who is also interested in working with young people.
Lauren: How does Kaleo Patterson do sovereignty work in the church?
Crystal: He’s Native, he grew up in Waianae, and now he’s an ordained minister. He’s been pastoring Native Hawaiian churches for a while. He talked about the actions and works that he and his colleagues do on sacred sites built in honor of Native ancestors and gods.
I was moved when he took us to a Heiau, which is a sacred place compromised of stones in a platform, at Makaha Beach. There was a small area blocked off by stones. Kaleo asked us to pray first before stepping in, to say, “We’re here for learning, with respect and in peace and love.” I thought it was awesome that he was a Christian minister who also embraced his Native Hawaiian spirituality, culture, and the ancestral spirits and that his faith was not separated from his culture. I recently read an article where he said, “I’m too socially active for the Christians and too Christian for the activists, so it’s kind of an awkward place to be.” I liked that because I think when you fit in perfectly that’s when something’s wrong!
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Though Honolulu is full of hotels, they continue to build more.
Native Hawaiian Rev. Kaleo Patterson shares the meaning of sacred sites
Native Hawaiians houseless on their own land
Homeless Native Hawaiians sleeping on the beach
Sacred site on Makaha Beach |
Lauren: What’s up with the military in Hawaii? What’s the situation there?
Crystal: While we were at Makaha Beach we were across from this huge land area with military helicopters flying really low. It was a huge area that the military still uses, still occupies, and, I guess, still practices on. Also, while we were driving on the highway, we passed large strips of military land with tanks. Just on the other side of the road from this militarized land were houses and communities! |
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| In a way, the military is glamorized in Hawaii. In talking with relatives and friends there, I got the sense that joining the military is seen as a step up in life. There is a very strong military presence in Hawaii that just takes over. For most people that I know there, joining the military is an opportunity to have a better life and not a politically conscious one. I guess in that environment it’s just easier to go along with it.
Lauren: You have a cousin from Hawaii who is in the military in Iraq right now, right? What was it like for you to see the environment that she was probably influenced by, where the military is glamorized as a symbol of the powerful, heroic, big and strong?
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Young U.S. soldiers in Iraq
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Crystal: Yes, my cousin Desiree Talitonu is in Iraq as we speak. She enlisted straight out of high school. Like I said, outside of the postcard Hawaii (Waikiki), the rest of Hawaii is almost completely militarized. Seeing that this time around helped me to understand her decision to enlist. So, I felt a sense of empathy for her and gave her a little amnesty.
The resources available for working class people, or for Samoans, specifically, in Hawaii are very limited, so when the military recruiters show up, they are totally regarded as THE ONLY option – especially for the Po’Folk.
I spoke with another relative in Hawaii who was considering the military as a career and I didn’t know how to say, “It could be the worst fucking decision you could ever make in your life!” in a nice way, so I just said it like that. I guess it was sort of shocking for her to hear me say that, since many people in my family are pro-military and fairly conservative “Christian” thinkers. It was then that I realized that speaking out against issues that I am passionate about will not always be received in a positive way. And I’m probably going to disagree way more than agree with even my own family members.
Lauren: What’s the social, political, economic, and historical context of how a lot of Samoans who are in in Hawaii now got there? Why are they there? When did they start coming? How did they get there?
Crystal: I think a lot of Samoans who migrated to the U.S. were in the same situation as my father and other family members. During the Vietnam War, U.S. military occupation and recruitment in Samoa was ridiculous. My dad was the youngest and basically, on his own while his parents were in Seminary in Western Samoa. He really felt like joining the military would help his family out. It was his only “positive” ticket out of the island. As a predominantly poor island the only working options were the local cannery or, if you were privileged and educated, you could work in the government offices. I guess too, migrating to Hawaii would not be such a dramatic change from back home. It was still the island life but with a step up with more opportunities to work and make money. That’s my theory.
Lauren: What was going on in American Samoa that there was so much poverty? Why were people leaving?
Crystal: It all started when we were colonized and we’re still colonized so we’re living out the effects of it even today. But I don’t think American Samoa has ever had to deal with extreme poverty. The saying “It takes a village to raise a child” is definitely true. Samoans may not have the pretty things that bling, but they survive. They live off of their land. Survival is a communal thing so people find ways to make it through. With the technology boom and Samoan Diaspora, Samoans were hearing and seeing Samoans and others in America with well-paying jobs and nice cars living out the “American dream” and they wanted a piece of that. Things were getting more expensive and wages were not increasing, so they needed to go where it was. Maybe some people were just tired of the Samoan culture being so oppressive and wanted to be free… |
Lauren: How does that history affect you now?
Crystal: I am a product of the migration from Samoa to the U.S. Growing up here in California has made me feel like a “watered-down” Samoan. I’m not completely accepted as an “American” because I am a person of color and I’m not fully accepted in the Samoan community because I’m Americanized. It’s definitely awkward and lonely at times. There was a time when I felt like what I needed to do was to go back to Samoa and reclaim my roots, immerse myself into the culture, land, language so that I would feel more acceptable. So, I recognize that I have been affected and continue to be affected by history, but I think being a part of both worlds helps me speak from a more balanced place. |
Crystal T. takes the mic at a Congregational Leadership Internship Awards Banquet, March 2007.
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Lauren: So you feel like you grew up in watered-down Samoan culture and you want to find the “real” Samoan culture that hasn’t been watered-down in America. But at the same time, there are parts even of the watered-down culture where you’re like, “I’m not sure if I’m down with that,” or “That’s not how I want to be part of how I think and operate in the world.” What specific parts of traditional Samoan culture are you resisting?
Crystal: What am I resisting? I’m resisting the parts of my culture that discriminate, hate, abuse, and mistreat – the “traditional” protocols that are done in patriarchal and exclusive ways and continue to be done this way because “that’s how it has always been done.” Don’t get me wrong, I love my culture, but I just think certain things can’t stay the same in this day and age.
Going back to colonialism, I’m grateful for being born from parents who were born on the side where America took over [American Samoa] because that allowed me not to have to the stress of being undocumented that lots of Samoans born in Western Samoa [which is now the independent state of Samoa] must go through. So it’s like, “Thank you, but fuck you. Fuck you, but thank you.”
I can’t say that I hate American culture because I am American and I don’t know how else to be.
There are a lot of people in my shoes who are Samoan, but growing up here [in the U.S.]. There is a large community of us who are not fully accepted in American culture and not fully accepted in Samoan culture. I feel like that’s where this new generation of Samoans are at. These experiences are not respected or being given a platform and I really want to change that.
Lauren: So how does Le Afi Ua Mu fit into this context? What is the program about?
Crystal: Le Afi Ua Mu means that the fire has burned, but we’re saying the fire is still burning. This project continues to change and develop as we enter into conversations with various people. We were in Hawaii launching this project and just being there opened our eyes to other directions and other needs that people have. I see a lot of resources that are not easily available to people my age or my ethnicity, so part of this project will be to provide those resources the community. For example, we’re organizing a life skills retreat for young people in our community that are in life transitions and planning fundraisers for their college tuitions. We are still dreaming and in deep dialogue about what this project will be.
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Lauren: You just got back from doing a presentation to kick-off this program in Hawaii. How did that presentation go? What was it like? Were people receptive? Were people like “Yeah! I wanna organize!” or were people like, “Uh… What are you talking about?”
Crystal: I knew off the top that a program around social justice issues would be completely foreign to a Samoan church. I know that because I grew up in a Samoan church and I go to a Samoan church and you never hear about issues like that – not even issues affecting Samoan people in Samoa. But, I stayed hopeful.
The presentation went well and we got to honor some young people and hear some great music from a local rock/funk band and see Samoan church youth perform some pretty Hyphy action songs! That was basically it. The response and curiosity that I hoped for from there didn’t happen. |
Crystal, Luse, Akani, Michael James, Rev. Deborah Lee, and Ayize at the Le Afi Ua Mu Kickoff Event at Church of the Crossroads, Honolulu
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The whole vibe in Hawaii is so chill – it’s so easy to fall into that, “I don’t care,” “It is what it is,” “I’ll just go to the beach” type of attitude. I think people have internalized their oppression to the point that they’re dismissive.
It’s something new you know? Kaleo was telling us that a lot of the churches and community people in Hawaii laugh at the sovereignty movement. They’re just like, “Get over it! Developers have already got the whole island booked.” I think that the audience saw us as doing something along the lines of the sovereignty movement. So I think they were already checked out before the first R2W person even spoke. That’s just my intuition.
Lauren: It kinda sounds like they weren’t feeling the good news or the hope or the possibility that any of the shit that has been going on is going to change.
Crystal: A majority of the people there were Samoan, so as a people, I feel like it is a part of our culture to be silent and to speak up would be considered disrespectful. So, inside, I was like, “You can SPEAK!” But then it made me remember that it’s a process. I was that way before, too, y’know?, afraid to speak my truth for fear of rejection from my family and culture. It wasn’t until I actually was able to step away and see myself outside of my church/family that I was able to find my voice and my truth. |
Lauren: What are your hopes with this program? What are your hopes for the larger Samoan community in a year or 3 years or 5 years or 10 years? What would you like to see? What are things that you would like to see change?
Crystal: I just wanna see more people being empowered like they can speak and they are not just sheep to be controlled. There are major issues affecting us that are not being spoken on and recognized so my hope is that this program allows for those voices and experiences to be heard.
I want to see our community deal with those issues and name them and try to do something about them and sort out those fucked up things that have happened to us – actually naming the bullshit and not brushing it under the rug and not dealing with it: This is what has happened to our people and this is what is happening and so we need to realize it and recognize it and do something. How do you do that? I’m not exactly sure today, but I’ll keep you posted!
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CLI with Hip Hop Tonga in the Sunnydale Projects in San Francisco, March 2007.
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Lauren: How do you see the work that you do as connected to your faith? We don’t go to Samoan community centers just anywhere and try to start up Le Afi Ua Mu. We went to a church – a faith community. Why is Le Afi Ua Mu housed within a faith-based program? Does it matter that we’re people of faith or is it just a coincidence?
Crystal: What I do is my faith experience. This work allows me to live and walk out my faith with action. I can pray, but then what else? I’m trying to work out that “….what else?” part. I feel the spirit of God most when I’m outside of the church. Can I get an AMEN?!
Lauren: How is what you’re doing distinct from other Pacific Islander activist organizations like AYPAL or the Samoan Community Development Corporation?
Crystal: It’s distinct because it will speak from your direct experiences in ways that embrace all of your aspects of being. It’s just that safe space, and it isn’t a specific exclusive space.
Lauren: How have people been seeing you as a young Samoan woman doing this? What has been the response that you’ve been getting from other people? Are they like, “Oh, you’re 25 and young and a Samoan woman and that’s cool?” I guess I’m wondering because of the patriarchy in the culture and the traditional hierarchy based on age.
Crystal: The feedback that I have gotten has been very positive. It’s definitely been the fuel for my fire! It’s great to be supported and rooted on, but I want to actually roll with people who are feeling the same way. I’m kind of tired of being the only Angry Samoan who takes things seriously.
I’ve been thankful for the support of my family. My dad is the male of the household, but he lives with me, my mom, and my sister – and we’re all strong-ass women -- and we respect each other. Because of my family’s support, I have been able to come this far. |
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